That Mysterious Flow

That Mysterious Flow by Paul Davies This is a follow up post to the article Andrew Thomas presented for Bee article at Backreaction, “Every Now and Then.”

It would have been nice to be able to see the content of the blog commentaries which are allowing pictures to greatly enhance the product and visual effect of our examples. Or, to consider Snap that would allow this comment to open in another window, as you hover over the link. For to display this using snap is a easy way of making the blog commentary more visual as well.

But onto what I would like to speak too, as Paul Davies wraps up his article.

Here’s the thing, if the culminating aspect and integration of all conceptual principles are given a wide berth then the idea here is to see that the “product of time,” is elevated to the aspect given to a “gravitational perspective” I have assigned to colour.

Enrique thinks Time is an Illusion too.

At 12:34 AM, May 04, 2008, Blogger Enrique said…

The way of our brain to know about that wavelength is that redness experience which cannot be communicated. I’m not saying that qualia do exist. What I say is that our brain handles that color information in such a way that creates this subjective experience. The same happens with sound. Althought soud is fully described physically by the speed, frequency, amplitude and shape of the wave in some media, we cannot figure out how it “sounds” until we acutally listen it. Same goes with temperature or odors. This doesn’t mean that the world out there doesn’t exist or that only exists in our mind. However all the perceptions that reach our brain have an existence that we consciously accept and I would say that that is the part consciousness plays here. We perceive that time flows and that is our brain’s way to know about time.

The idea here then is to point to two aspects that are related to how we see consciousness as playing a part in the measure of time. One that Paul Davies did recognize that there is no “time organ in our brains,”( as yet) and, Enrique points to the subjective nature of the integration aspect I find in relation to this conceptual synthesis.

Left alone the subjective nature of our impressionable memory stores this information, and out of it “the scheme” is the mathematical basis which I have applied to the “mind mapping scheme” that goes on.

Part of the reductionist aspect of following the information is to go “backwards in time” in this subjective cognitive fashion, and trace the human experiential aspect of the daily living, and what the mind captures in it’s recording. While this is being accomplished in the most subtle fashion of our thinking, the nature of the experience catalyst’s itself into the pool of the collective unconscious of the soul.

Whether one would think we are limited to this life alone, there is a greater reservoir that we tap into at this point. While probabilistic in it’s scenario(which life), the function is still less the the fashion I point to in the future, and it’s causations relevant to that which follows in that presentation of the now, is, fastidiously in it’s representations.

This is how I point to the “self referential loop” that the solidification and concretion’s of our thought structures become a oscillatory reduction of the projection to the mapping of the schema. Who you are now.

The Future and past are connected.

They manifest through you and whether one would argue the illusionist facet of this proposal, it is the understanding that we are “limited by our perspective.” While Enrique, moves to a “synthesis” is far from complete without understanding how the product of time is moved beyond the current perceptions housed.

The developing mapping that goes into the “Colour of Gravity” is the understanding that this coordinate space(configuration space) holds within it not only Boltzman’s brain, but the understanding of the unification toward a fifth dimensional perspective.

Since the Lab model is a three dimensional model, it can only be represented properly in a three dimensional space.

While only a two dimensional representation above points to a map that must be given to gravity, as we look at the “Lagrangian aspect of the cosmos” it could also include the “space of the mind” which we operate in. It has become multi-dynamical living space, as we explore the solidification processes reduced to the biological functions of the human body. As we explore the phase conditions of the matter states. Emotive , intellectual and spiritual in it’s breadth, is a much more subtle aspect of the “whole thinking being?”

The Map

What is the energy behind it, that it can manifest within your mind, and it then becomes this eternal puzzle of life? Remove all it’s colour then, and we see the geometrics of its construction. This is the Scheme with which I point as we move to understand the full scope of this puzzle called life, and all it’s expressions.

It was important that the understanding of consciousness connect to that eternal reservoir of life, we can come in contact with that very centre. So this is the idea I have about the connection between the past and the future. That while life is given to this frame of reference, the ultimate aspect of the life is but parcel of a much greater flow of energy that goes on within the divinity of the soul in expression.

The manifestation, is the recognition that the energy passes through from the soul’s creation in this life time, to the living of this life. Such patterns that manifest within the context of the mind’s pursuit is the recognition then of the energy packet contained in the puzzlement itself, that is offered for the reintroduction introspective search for greater meaning in this life, comes with, what we had learnt previously.

The future then is the greater puzzlement, that it lies open to the multitude of “fractal images” that manifest within the mind, as it tries to come to terms with all it’s aspectsof the human condition transformed into human experience.

See: Emotion and Reason Balanced: The Mind’s Consequence?
Mandalas as Mind Maps

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20 Responses to That Mysterious Flow

  1. Phil Warnell says:

    Hi Plato,I have followed the items you have posted as of late that run parallel to what Bee has been writing about . To be truthful I have no fixed position on this issue other then what I considered in my own blog posting some time back. In the context I laid out, would you say we are simply playing the record at an arbitrary point or are we all contributing to the making of one?Best,Phil

  2. Plato says:

    Hi Phil,I have a question for you first.I made a comment to Neil on the issue of the scheme. From that, and from what I had written in relation to the topic of the Now in relation to Bee’s article, which example of yours would apply to the scheme in the way I am explaining it?

  3. PlatoHagel says:

    Hi Phil,I have a question for you first.I made a comment to Neil on the issue of the scheme. From that, and from what I had written in relation to the topic of the Now in relation to Bee\’s article, which example of yours would apply to the scheme in the way I am explaining it?

  4. Phil Warnell says:

    Hi Plato,After having a look at what Scheme is suppose to be, I would say it relates to the playing of a record rather the forming of one, as it pertains to my analogy. The commutative aspect of it and restriction to only solutions involving rational coefficients would suggest no true uncertainty as an element even though there can and probably does exist chaotic complexity. In as I have no deep or direct understanding of the program language or related algebra this then serves as merely my impression. So how then would you see it?Best,Phil

  5. Plato says:

    Phil:What would be produced if we cut a record on such a substance without supplying input? What would happen is that the needle when confined to the inward revolving motion facilitated with a constant force of rotation (travel) would create grooves displaying varying amplitude(height), wave length(length) and frequency (depth or density) in accordance to these related factors. That is that the record produced would create a pattern (information) that tells one of the character of the substance encountered in relation to the action included (time). In this way the whole thing is resultant of the mutual potential realized (actualized) between the two.Time, is it an Essence?You then go onto write this…..First it should be understood that the playing of the record is not a state of being or becoming but merely the act of observing the past.Phil:…would suggest no true uncertainty as an element even though there can and probably does exist chaotic complexity.This is partly true to me in that I may present a mandala for an example, for examination. While trying to understand it’s full meaning, as it was presented, I use other examples to display this intent, as the representative of what has been recorded, and what the “information as the energy” is expressed becomes “a capsule” if you may, to reveal what had been previously recorded, and again manifest within one’s own life.This had been “lived before.”So in the sense of this life alone “this is a marker.”Mathematics or computational derivatives, are the basis of expression, and what ever we assign to this as a factor becomes the “map of the unfoldment” of the further realizations.The mathematics is the essence, and while philosophically being detailed here, I am just as illiterate likewise, yet, I understand the need for it as the basis of language. This does not mean, I am not educating myself to help define the essence of, and the approach according to nature’s laws as they are unfolding within myself becomes the pattern recognized in other people. Even though “Nerdy crossed the beach and saved the individual before you did,” by describing and calculating the landscape, knowing the “minimalist route” to the source is still of importance to me, and why I rejected Dany and Ned’s point of view, over at Every Now and Then.The pattern “as information” is the energy of expression. “Time is no longer a problem” when you elevate it to an assumed position, and the assumption is, to see “curvatures as already existing in relation to the light.””Colour” and geometrics together become the energy and pattern expressed in our lives.Does this make any sense to you? I discovered this as I journeyed inward. I do not discount what happens as one does this.I will show you what I mean as I give you an example that was given to highlight this understanding for me.

  6. PlatoHagel says:

    Phil:What would be produced if we cut a record on such a substance without supplying input? What would happen is that the needle when confined to the inward revolving motion facilitated with a constant force of rotation (travel) would create grooves displaying varying amplitude(height), wave length(length) and frequency (depth or density) in accordance to these related factors. That is that the record produced would create a pattern (information) that tells one of the character of the substance encountered in relation to the action included (time). In this way the whole thing is resultant of the mutual potential realized (actualized) between the two.Time, is it an Essence?You then go onto write this…..First it should be understood that the playing of the record is not a state of being or becoming but merely the act of observing the past.Phil:…would suggest no true uncertainty as an element even though there can and probably does exist chaotic complexity.This is partly true to me in that I may present a mandala for an example, for examination. While trying to understand it\’s full meaning, as it was presented, I use other examples to display this intent, as the representative of what has been recorded, and what the \”information as the energy\” is expressed becomes \”a capsule\” if you may, to reveal what had been previously recorded, and again manifest within one\’s own life.This had been \”lived before.\”So in the sense of this life alone \”this is a marker.\”Mathematics or computational derivatives, are the basis of expression, and what ever we assign to this as a factor becomes the \”map of the unfoldment\” of the further realizations.The mathematics is the essence, and while philosophically being detailed here, I am just as illiterate likewise, yet, I understand the need for it as the basis of language. This does not mean, I am not educating myself to help define the essence of, and the approach according to nature\’s laws as they are unfolding within myself becomes the pattern recognized in other people. Even though \”Nerdy crossed the beach and saved the individual before you did,\” by describing and calculating the landscape, knowing the \”minimalist route\” to the source is still of importance to me, and why I rejected Dany and Ned\’s point of view, over at Every Now and Then.The pattern \”as information\” is the energy of expression. \”Time is no longer a problem\” when you elevate it to an assumed position, and the assumption is, to see \”curvatures as already existing in relation to the light.\”\”Colour\” and geometrics together become the energy and pattern expressed in our lives.Does this make any sense to you? I discovered this as I journeyed inward. I do not discount what happens as one does this.I will show you what I mean as I give you an example that was given to highlight this understanding for me.

  7. Plato says:

    Where a dictionary proceeds in a circular manner, defining a word by reference to another, the basic concepts of mathematics are infinitely closer to an indecomposable element”, a kind of elementary particle” of thought with a minimal amount of ambiguity in their definition. Alain ConnesThe “philosophical derivations” are necessary as one proceeds in the manner of finding the “root causes?” It is as important to understand this in relation to the mathematics, or computational derivatives. E8 is a pattern, and is computationally and mathematically recognized.But more to what the example is that serves to remind me of the subtle nature of our actions. The sound.Savas Dimopoulos:Here’s an analogy to understand this: imagine that our universe is a two-dimensional pool table, which you look down on from the third spatial dimension. When the billiard balls collide on the table, they scatter into new trajectories across the surface. But we also hear the click of sound as they impact: that’s collision energy being radiated into a third dimension above and beyond the surface. In this picture, the billiard balls are like protons and neutrons, and the sound wave behaves like the graviton.See:The Ring of TruthThe assumption that had been elevated with regards to gravity, is the recognition of the depth of who we are, as we make our way in the world. Once recognized, the light, and all it journey’s “to save the drowning person,” even as we see the “least action principle,” we now see, “sound is of value as a new concept” when we look at the synthesis of what I find in relation to Enrique’s comment. Sound then, like colour, takes on a whole new meaning in it’s metaphorical relations. Science uses it now in it’s analysis, as part of that elevation of thinking. Webber had an inkling of it in the use of his aluminum bars, and I believe Einstein may of saw it this way too, as the “ring” becomes a reverberating cause(information) that moves through everything in the world?

  8. PlatoHagel says:

    Where a dictionary proceeds in a circular manner, defining a word by reference to another, the basic concepts of mathematics are infinitely closer to an indecomposable element\”, a kind of elementary particle\” of thought with a minimal amount of ambiguity in their definition. Alain ConnesThe \”philosophical derivations\” are necessary as one proceeds in the manner of finding the \”root causes?\” It is as important to understand this in relation to the mathematics, or computational derivatives. E8 is a pattern, and is computationally and mathematically recognized.But more to what the example is that serves to remind me of the subtle nature of our actions. The sound.Savas Dimopoulos:Here’s an analogy to understand this: imagine that our universe is a two-dimensional pool table, which you look down on from the third spatial dimension. When the billiard balls collide on the table, they scatter into new trajectories across the surface. But we also hear the click of sound as they impact: that’s collision energy being radiated into a third dimension above and beyond the surface. In this picture, the billiard balls are like protons and neutrons, and the sound wave behaves like the graviton.See:The Ring of TruthThe assumption that had been elevated with regards to gravity, is the recognition of the depth of who we are, as we make our way in the world. Once recognized, the light, and all it journey\’s \”to save the drowning person,\” even as we see the \”least action principle,\” we now see, \”sound is of value as a new concept\” when we look at the synthesis of what I find in relation to Enrique\’s comment. Sound then, like colour, takes on a whole new meaning in it\’s metaphorical relations. Science uses it now in it\’s analysis, as part of that elevation of thinking. Webber had an inkling of it in the use of his aluminum bars, and I believe Einstein may of saw it this way too, as the \”ring\” becomes a reverberating cause(information) that moves through everything in the world?

  9. Plato says:

    Colour in the “configuration space” not only reveals aspects of the event? Imagine then, the relations to the “colour of gravity” as we look at the calorimetric relations of the event? Glast, or the LHC, while onioned in it’s layering, provide for the depth of our seeing, as we look to the cosmos. It’s part, and parcel, of a much larger picture, and so, are we.:)

  10. PlatoHagel says:

    Colour in the \”configuration space\” not only reveals aspects of the event? Imagine then, the relations to the \”colour of gravity\” as we look at the calorimetric relations of the event? Glast, or the LHC, while onioned in it\’s layering, provide for the depth of our seeing, as we look to the cosmos. It\’s part, and parcel, of a much larger picture, and so, are we.:)

  11. Phil Warnell says:

    Hi Plato,I’m sorry to report that despite your comments, I’m still not clear as to your position on this. My question was very straight forward and that was in terms of my analogy do you understand time as it is to be represented in the playing of a record (already formed) or the producing of one (being formed)? You draw a parallel between sound and light which in one respect is valid, in that they can both be expressed as phenomena having wave form. However, unlike sound, light when observed from any reference frame other then its own has no time element and for that matter no other spatial dimension outside its direction of travel. For me this only serves to confuse the issue, not clarify it. I then ask if you could just respond in terms of the question I asked so that I might be certain of your position and then therefore understand.Best,Phil

  12. Plato says:

    Phil:do you understand time as it is to be represented in the playing of a record (already formed) or the producing of one (being formed)?Both. ON the basis, that a record had been produced, and, that we indeed contribute to such a record.

  13. PlatoHagel says:

    Phil:do you understand time as it is to be represented in the playing of a record (already formed) or the producing of one (being formed)?Both. ON the basis, that a record had been produced, and, that we indeed contribute to such a record.

  14. Phil Warnell says:

    Hi Plato,“Both. ON the basis, that a record had been produced, and, that we indeed contribute to such a record.”From my perspective you continue to elude. I cannot be critical in to expect as to demand clarity, yet am optioned to refrain from further discussion in which this is withheld. This is not to be understood as a judgment, simply a logical requirement.Best,Phil

  15. Plato says:

    Phil:From my perspective you continue to elude.I thought the question pointed and indeed asking for clarity. I had to draw on what I know in order to answer the question, but it would have also been interpreted as “this answer has been interpreted?”Logical then? The question allowed you to do what you already needed to do, so I understand:)But since it makes no difference I am going to give my reasons for saying so.Each life is “encapsuled to mean,” “ON the basis, that a record had been produced,” and that, each life, “we indeed contribute to such a record.” acknowledges that “the pattern of information” energy, is a summation of one’s life work, and is drawn from if you might “in this geometrical form.” While I had given the example of the Mandala of eastern origins,(do you understand it’s construct in 3 dimensions?) I refer constantly to the “nature of wholeness” and what this symbolizes. Then, what value just a circle on a piece of paper, if it is not to include all of that which life can be included in it? What value “a point” in that circle if it did not represent the source? Where are these things that are ancient indeed and you find through out history, symbols that emblazon this idea about wholeness and about coming in contact with the source?Because I was able to “find history and relive it” and come in contact, who was to know that one might have interpreted “this as a seizure,” and find that such coordinates in mind can bring the whole being back in contact with the very source of it’s creation? Call it “creativity if you might” and each soul tries to express themselves in the most intimate fashion with meaning. An artist, a poet, or someone who reveals their soul through their work?But little does one realize “that such pattern” goes into reliving such a process, and now having moved it into the realm of science. Where such patterns take on new conceptual frontiers? Natural Philosophy? Yes, I understand.:)This is where,”we indeed contribute to such a record.”The question was recognize for what it demanded and what you yourself did not realize it demanded, and if this not true, then, what logic were you using?:) best,

  16. PlatoHagel says:

    Phil:From my perspective you continue to elude.I thought the question pointed and indeed asking for clarity. I had to draw on what I know in order to answer the question, but it would have also been interpreted as \”this answer has been interpreted?\”Logical then? The question allowed you to do what you already needed to do, so I understand:)But since it makes no difference I am going to give my reasons for saying so.Each life is \”encapsuled to mean,\” \”ON the basis, that a record had been produced,\” and that, each life, \”we indeed contribute to such a record.\” acknowledges that \”the pattern of information\” energy, is a summation of one\’s life work, and is drawn from if you might \”in this geometrical form.\” While I had given the example of the Mandala of eastern origins,(do you understand it\’s construct in 3 dimensions?) I refer constantly to the \”nature of wholeness\” and what this symbolizes. Then, what value just a circle on a piece of paper, if it is not to include all of that which life can be included in it? What value \”a point\” in that circle if it did not represent the source? Where are these things that are ancient indeed and you find through out history, symbols that emblazon this idea about wholeness and about coming in contact with the source?Because I was able to \”find history and relive it\” and come in contact, who was to know that one might have interpreted \”this as a seizure,\” and find that such coordinates in mind can bring the whole being back in contact with the very source of it\’s creation? Call it \”creativity if you might\” and each soul tries to express themselves in the most intimate fashion with meaning. An artist, a poet, or someone who reveals their soul through their work?But little does one realize \”that such pattern\” goes into reliving such a process, and now having moved it into the realm of science. Where such patterns take on new conceptual frontiers? Natural Philosophy? Yes, I understand.:)This is where,\”we indeed contribute to such a record.\”The question was recognize for what it demanded and what you yourself did not realize it demanded, and if this not true, then, what logic were you using?:) best,

  17. Phil Warnell says:

    Hi Plato,“The question was recognize for what it demanded and what you yourself did not realize it demanded, and if this not true, then, what logic were you using?:)”Although I still consider your reply somewhat convoluted and obscure, it does shed some light on your perspective. You propose that the record although already formed was formed in what could be considered the absolute past and that once made it continues to be played and that the point perceived is arbitrary and would be relevant to ones own frame of reference. I would consider this perhaps novel and yet self inconsistent, for it requires both a beginning and an end that from a cyclical perspective could also be considered arbitrary. Perhaps this is how yourself and many consider a continuum and yet my understanding is not the same, for although this serves to be holistic in some respect it does not serve to be infinite as in Cantors uncountable perspective as relates to the Aleph. However, if you separate the formed from the forming by way of a realm or dimension that describes what would be called potential, then it then could remain consistent. This however separates what we call reality from the continuum and renders the “now” as unique and special as opposed to all other times within this reality. As this is consistent with Plato, Einstein and Quantum Theory, I would consider this to be both acceptable as it is apparently consistent. In this model the past can and does affect the future in both conscious and unconscious decision and yet the true unfathomable nature of the continuum leaves it unknowable, although in the strictest sense determined. That is determined not merely in the sense of uncontrolled consequence, yet also that which is considered by way of the control of conscious. This of course is what one would call freedom of choice or will. This however cannot be considered as a block universe yet could be considered a block reality, which of course is what is of true importance as to be the issue.Best,Phil

  18. Plato says:

    Phil:You propose that the record although already formed was formed in what could be considered the absolute past and that once made it continues to be played and that the point perceived is arbitrary and would be relevant to ones own frame of reference.As subjective as it seems to you, my explanation has uncovered something about our “innate features” that many would not of recognized. Especially had one not gone deeper, and were, “more introspective” about the nature of the mathematics. Where do these things reside, and Alain Connes is continually put in front of you to explain this “indecomposable element” for consideration?Do you propose that we can separate from what is in the past and in the context that I relay it, deny giving a person freewill to develop further?Phil:…..yet the true unfathomable nature of the continuum leaves it unknowable, although in the strictest sense determined.What is inconsistent about my explanation in relation to what is firmly implanted in your mind in relation to the figures heads you have mentioned?? You ask the question “based on a fundamental model you had developed” along side of, and then ask the question?This does not remove you, or I, from context of the continuity and flow of the universe does it? Know that “time still goes on ticking:)”I like “Bee ‘s calibration checker” called Grandma’s button.:)I would of course point to “Fuzzy logic?”New Post later, to try and speak on the relationship that Smolin forged by association, and developmental ideas in relation to the philosophy of science. I do not have to remind one of the influence people can have on each other as they forge these relationships, and develop further, the models they produce for consideration.Julian BarbourIn my “The End of Time” I argue that the wave function of the universe is static and that the appearance of the flow of time emerges because the wave function of the universe is concentrated on configurations of the universe that we recognize as records. Edward Anderson and I are currently trying to develop this idea and create a theory of records. If successful, this work promises to explain the origin of the arrow of time at a fundamental level.Moving on.:)Best,

  19. PlatoHagel says:

    Phil:You propose that the record although already formed was formed in what could be considered the absolute past and that once made it continues to be played and that the point perceived is arbitrary and would be relevant to ones own frame of reference.As subjective as it seems to you, my explanation has uncovered something about our \”innate features\” that many would not of recognized. Especially had one not gone deeper, and were, \”more introspective\” about the nature of the mathematics. Where do these things reside, and Alain Connes is continually put in front of you to explain this \”indecomposable element\” for consideration?Do you propose that we can separate from what is in the past and in the context that I relay it, deny giving a person freewill to develop further?Phil:…..yet the true unfathomable nature of the continuum leaves it unknowable, although in the strictest sense determined.What is inconsistent about my explanation in relation to what is firmly implanted in your mind in relation to the figures heads you have mentioned?? You ask the question \”based on a fundamental model you had developed\” along side of, and then ask the question?This does not remove you, or I, from context of the continuity and flow of the universe does it? Know that \”time still goes on ticking:)\”I like \”Bee \’s calibration checker\” called Grandma\’s button.:)I would of course point to \”Fuzzy logic?\”New Post later, to try and speak on the relationship that Smolin forged by association, and developmental ideas in relation to the philosophy of science. I do not have to remind one of the influence people can have on each other as they forge these relationships, and develop further, the models they produce for consideration.Julian BarbourIn my \”The End of Time\” I argue that the wave function of the universe is static and that the appearance of the flow of time emerges because the wave function of the universe is concentrated on configurations of the universe that we recognize as records. Edward Anderson and I are currently trying to develop this idea and create a theory of records. If successful, this work promises to explain the origin of the arrow of time at a fundamental level.Moving on.:)Best,

  20. Phil Warnell says:

    Hi Plato,“Do you propose that we can separate from what is in the past and in the context that I relay it, deny giving a person freewill to develop further?”For me and many it has always been a problem how one can consider the nature of Einstein’s space-time with the nature of the quanta in a consistent manner. In one all of what can be and where and how it can be is there in completion; in the other what is there has no firmness beyond perception. How then could both be true? For me the answer has always seemed to rest with what we call potential. The answer then lies with what is all and how is it all. For many when considering all, this forces it to be one thing. I say that this is a fallacy for all is not by necessity a collection to be one thing, yet rather is the collection of all things which includes all that’s possible. One then only has to realize that the possible doesn’t in fact describe limit, yet rather denies it. Therefore, how does this serve to deny free will for it also would be included in what is possible. The difference being is that the possible does not reside in a space of limit, yet rather is what allows for it and defines its potential limit not through time yet rather with time; which as we have found already has none. When considered this way, time is the gateway and the path through which we explore the possible. Does this allow for more then one now? The answer to this is found when one asks if this is possible? Does this omit the flow of time? I ask how can the path be denied for the journey that is not?Best,Phil

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